Chris, 72, Bradford on Avon
Occupation Gardener, former teacher
Voting record Tactically Lib Dem/Green
Amuse bouche Was expelled twice, returning to education later with government help to become a teacher
Antony, 69, North Somerset
Occupation Digital cartographer
Voting record Historically, Labour; now Green
Amuse bouche Once spent three hours chatting to Rolling Stone Charlie Watts while waiting for a delayed flight
For starters
Antony The restaurant had our booking down as a Blind Date. Not what we were after, but had it been, it would have been quite successful.
Chris Antony is a lovely guy. We swapped life stories and discovered we’ve both lived in London. I was in Hackney, where Antony’s daughter now lives. Antony’s a punk, while I’m more of an old hippy.
Antony Chris is now a horticulturist and we have some land we’re developing into a productive forest garden, so we talked about that. I ate mussels on a bed of granular pasta. We shared a carafe of orange wine.
Chris The food was different from the usual Italian: rustic recipes. I had pappardelle pasta with venison – very flavoursome. The staff were brilliant, really cheerful and enthusiastic.
The big beef
Antony We discussed cancel culture. There was a story recently about a Bangor University debating society event that Reform had wanted to be represented at but weren’t allowed. Reform said: you’ve cancelled us, free speech, blah blah. I think students can ask anyone they want to come. Maybe it would have been interesting to invite Reform, but they didn’t have to.
Chris I don’t believe in cancel culture under any circumstances. It stops people thinking and challenging themselves. It’s that old thing: know thyself, know thy enemy. In Bangor, I think they should have said: yeah, one person from Reform come along.
Antony Cancelled is one of these meaningless terms. Reform weren’t cancelled; they just weren’t invited. If you’re having a party, you decide who gets to come and who doesn’t. If someone gatecrashes, you can say, “Sorry mate,” and turn them away; or, if you like the look at them, say, “Come in, it’ll be fun.” And that’s your right.
Chris I think it was the wrong response for two reasons. First, let them come and spout their crap, then find better arguments than theirs. Do not cancel speakers, do not cancel books; sharpen your arguments. Second, denying them was an open goal because they went straight to the Telegraph and GB News and got a lot of publicity – another stick to beat the liberals with.
Sharing plate
Antony We agreed that eating meat is fine, but intensive farming isn’t.
Chris The mass production of meat is a real problem. The River Wye is polluted and campaigners have blamed the chicken farms at the top end. Traditional farming is not the problem – the problem is all the cheap chicken and burger joints, and burning down the Amazon to raise cattle. In general, farmers – particularly dairy – get a really bad deal. They’re screwed down by the supermarkets and successive governments.
For afters
Antony I started my career in housing associations in the late 70s. It wasn’t perfect then, but right to buy was a disaster: it took away councils’ ability to provide housing for those in need.
Chris People aspire to home ownership, and I accept that. If you’ve lived in your council house for many years, I think there’s a reasonable case for allowing people to buy it.
Antony We sold off assets that had been built up over 30 years and we’re suffering the consequences. The discounts were huge so people in the right place at the right time benefited, but everyone down the line lost out. We now have a housing crisis and much of the council housing that was sold is in private landlords’ hands.
Chris I wouldn’t stop right to buy, but I would insist all the money from it goes straight back into replacing social housing stock. Allowing for a discount for tenancy, these sales should be close to the market price.
Takeaway
Antony I really enjoyed having licence to discuss these topics. I don’t actually talk about stuff with a lot with people.
Chris It was thoroughly enjoyable to talk in depth. Antony has created a forest garden and he’s given me an open invitation to go and look at it.
Additional reporting: Kitty Drake
Antony and Chris ate at Cotto in Bristol
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